UPDATED - Life Time Fitness Triathlon
Eric Schwartz (duathlon)
on
July 20, 2002
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Life Time Fitness Triathlon
Minneapolis, Minnesota
Saturday, July 20, 2002
.75 Mile Swim, 21.3 Mile Bike, 4.9 Mile Run - nondrafting
$180,000 prize purse
The pro men started 9 minutes and 39 seconds after the pro women, and the first person across the line at the Life Time Fitness Triathlon would earn $50,000. The $50,000 payday went to American Barb Lindquist, who finished ten seconds in front of Becky Gibbs and 15 seconds in front of Australian Greg Walton. The $180,000 prize purse is one of the biggest in the history of the sport. Lindquist received $10,000 for being the top woman, and a $40,000 bonus for being first across the line. The top man, Walton, received and $8,000 bonus for his third place overall finish, plus $10,000 as the top man.
Final Results: Splits are listed here
1. Barb Lindquist (USA) 1:37:02 $50,000
2. Becky Gibbs (USA) 1:37:12 $20,000
3. Craig Walton (AUS) 1:37:17 $18,000
4. Greg Bennett (AUS) 1:37:46 $15,000
5. Peter Robertson 1:38:09 $12,000
6. Miles Stewart (AUS) 1:38:25 $7,000
7. Hamish Carter 1:38:29 $6,000
8. Paul Amey 1:38:34 $5,000
9. Sheila Taormina (USA) 1:38:41 $8,000
10. Nicole Hackett (AUS) 1:39:10 $7,000
11. Craig Alexander (AUS) 1:39:22 $4,000
12. Rasmus Henning (DEN) 1:29:28 $3,000
13. Simon Lessing (GBR) 1:39:53 $2,000
14. Michellie Jones (AUS) 1:39:59 $6,000
15. Conrad Stoltz (RSA) 1:40:11 $1,000
16. Joanna Zeiger (USA) 1:40:37 $5,000
17. Evelyn Williamson 1:40:51 $4,000
18. Andrew Kelsey 1:40:58
19. Tony DeBoom (USA) 1:41:10
20. Torbjorn Sindballe (DEN) 1:41:11
21. Nicole DeBoom (USA) 1:41:12 $3,000
22. Matthew Reed (NZL) 1:41:24
23. Carol Montgomery (CAN) 1:41:38 $2,000
24. Marc Lees 1:41:45
25. Victor Plata (USA) 1:42:14
26. Karen Smyers (USA) 1:42:24 $1,000
27. Brian Lavelle (USA) 1:42:37
28. Laruen Jensen (USA) 1:43:11
29. Lucy Smith (CAN) 1:44:09
30. Tim Don (GBR) 1:44:14
31. Heather Gollnick (USA) 1:44:24
32. Pip Taylor 1:44:57
33. Desiree Ficker (USA) 1:45:16
34. Tina Paulson 1:51:51
35. Donna Peters 1:57:56
36. Jeffrey Henderson 2:05:51
DNF: Chris McCormack (AUS) after bike
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by run2win on July 20, 2002
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What a waste of money. They could have put on like 4 or 5 awesome pro races with great prize money, instead of blowing it all on race. Also, kind of silly to give $50,000 to the overall winner, since the handicapp is so arbitrary. They should have just given the overall male and female winners more money and a small bonus to the overall winner.
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Anonymous post on July 20, 2002
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This in not triathlon. It is a showshow! The event was as bogus as the broadcast of this "event." Puleez!!
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by Triath10 on July 20, 2002
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A bunch of hype for nothing! Let's start with the OLN television coverage. It was great that OLN was willing to televise the event, but the production and coverage was worse than a B movie. It was obvious the people putting the coverage together didn't know a thing about triathlons. Good thing Wes Hobson was an announcer or the term used would have been "Disgrace".
It's great that there is more money for these athletes, but this format was useless. Let's take the money and just divide it over the male and female winners to make a large purse. Do away with the format, but keep the prize money. The money brings the athletes and NOT the format.
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by Paul on July 21, 2002
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Hey, to all you negative types. Think positive instead. Whats the harm. REALLY!!
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Anonymous post on July 21, 2002
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did anyone see the post race coverage with Craig Walton- I don't think he seemed too upset with the way things were run, and all of the athletes seemed to really enjoy the race - maybe you had to be there, but it was great for the sport.
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by desfick on July 21, 2002
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I competed in the race yesterday and although I did not even close to winning any money, it was a great race and a great idea. I have heard that the coverage could use some work and this might be true, but the intention behind the whole event seemed to be a good one. The event staff and particularly the race director were extremely willing to work with the athletes, incorporating our ideas to give us the most fair, enjoyable race they could. It was also so nice that it was non drafting!
If you think the race came across as a joke in the broadcast, I would suggest sending a constructive email to the event staff on ways that they could make the TV production better for next year. I am sure they will be receptive to advice. They want to help the sport of triathlon, not hurt it and they obviously have some money to try and do so. Best, Desiree
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by desfick on July 21, 2002
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Sorry, one more comment, I think it was a fun change to race the guys as it helped bring the athletes closer together. I was passed by the pro men throughout the race and it was great to be able to cheer them on and have them do the same for me. Beforehand the men and women were going back and forth, teasing each other,etc. It even took the edge off the pre race jitters a little bit.....
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Anonymous post on July 21, 2002
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I don't have a problem with the format, money, etc. It's not like it's taxpayer money and we should all have a say so in how it's spent. Their money, so they should be able to put on any kind of race they want to. The next time one of you have $180,000 to give out as a race purse, then you can do whatever you want. Until then, save us all the useless complaining.
Now, on to some "useful" complaining. The OLN coverage was the worst coverage of about any athletic event I have ever seen. I was excited about the time they allowed to cover the event and with the short distance of the race I expected to see plenty of racing. However, all I saw was two commentators talking back and forth, and some interviews with some celebrity competitors. (Hey Greg, would it kill you to acknowledge that Lance is dominating the Tour de France.) Virtually no race coverage other than an occassional pan over to the race leaders. I didn't even know that Michellie Jones or Desiree, and many others I'm sure, were racing until I saw the results on this website. I actually got up after an hour of wasting my time and didn't see the finish. Very disappointed viewer. I should probably take Desiree's advice and send OLN a note as well.
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by DuitDuit on July 21, 2002
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Just something to think about. USAT keeps sending our top triathletes (Hunter, Umph, Flash, etc.) to Canada to race (Edmonton, Cornerbrook) at the same time that some company called Life Time Fitness (whoever they are) is dropping big bucks on what could agruably be called a publicity stunt triathlon. Why not do some not very difficult reschedulng and put on an Edmonton style ITU Cup race. This format was like watching paint dry, or more appropriately, fog lift. The ITU races are exciting. At Cornerbrook 1st and 2nd were four seconds apart. Personally I'd prefer to see the financial backing to toward supporting our Olympic and international athletes in an ITU format.
As for the race coverage itself, Oh my God! They didn't even know where the finish line was, and I don't think they mentioned more than 6 athletes by name. I can't imagine that companies like Target and Galyan's got much of a return for their advertising dollar. The commentators were brain dead. The coverage of the racing, if you want to call it that looked like a tape of one of Barb's solo training runs. Hard to imagine that your average OLN viewer, or even a holdover viewer from the TDF was jumping up and down in front of the television. What really hurts is thst I'm affraid that once again triathlon was made to look more like an activity or recreation that a competition, because they never really showed people locked in competition. Traithlon was given a huge opportunity by following the TDF live on OLN and blew it. Hope we get a second chance.
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by ftofnoone on July 22, 2002
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i hope there were more people in the field than what it reads above. I did not see the coverage, as we don't get OLN in Rochester. But hopefully I'll have a tape of it. I agree, that this race was a complete waste of money and that the funds could be used elsewhere. It would be much more productive to spread the money out over a series. Make some more ITU points races, get some draftlegal junior races to help kids develope. And try to give the money to some more Americans (at least on the men's side). As nice as it would be to get a world cup, it's a lot tougher than just "here's $180,000 in prize money". But I do find it absolutely pathetic, that Canada has 3 world cup races (edmonton, Corner Brook, and Toronto?) and the US, the founders of Triathlon, have one semi contested race early in the year (St. Anthony's).
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Anonymous post on July 22, 2002
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About the OLN coverage, which apparently was not so great. The race course was totally on tree-lined narrow and twisty residential streets--beautiful but not conducive to great television, nor the non drafting format for that matter...
The race was excellent and fun, it seemed that all the pros were pretty happy to be there and part of something different, but there were a few details that should be ironed out for next year.
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by ALLEZJOHN on July 22, 2002
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I think the event [format, prize $, distance, etc] is a great idea. The TV coverage was sub par, but that's minor. From what I hear, the athletes [pro and am] had a really great experience, and that goes a long way. Maybe it wasn't perfect, but it was a great first attempt. I think we as multisport athletes should be happy that Lifetime Fitness invested so much time and $ in our sport, and that triathlon recieved same day TV coverage!! Does anyone remember how awful NBC's coverage of the 2000 Sydney Olympic Tri was? With the exception of the wobbly moto-bike camera, I think the OLN coverage of the LFTri was a big improvement.
Maybe next year's Pro race at the Dannon DU in Florida should be set up in the eliminator format?
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by blaireau on July 22, 2002
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"But I do find it absolutely pathetic, that Canada has 3 world cup races" btw Toronto is not a World Cup.
Maybe the US is the founder of the sport, but I doubt you are currently leading it. Also 90% of the people in the US are against drafting, and the last 2 pro circuit went bankrupt and a stole all the money that was supposed to be giving to the athlete. So probably a reason why the ITU races are not very present in the US.
I don't understand why people are mad about the fact a big race is organise in he US. Would this big race just give more publicity to sport? Maybe bring more sponsor, and maybe more people to try it?
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Anonymous post on July 22, 2002
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Last poster make some good idea. Top athlete from where I live are not going to USA because they are doing ITU World Cup event. These event have big spectators and are very much exciting. The ITU form with many laps and drafting makes very exciting for spectator. Prize money is not always answer. Race need to be best format, ITU.
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Anonymous post on July 22, 2002
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To all the negative posters:
First off, you all need to lighten up. Secondly, maybe you should acknowledge the fact that a great company (LifeTime Fitness) is investing in Triathlon. Unless you want to keep triathlon your own little secret club with no growth or development, you need to embrace and welcome their efforts. I agree that the coverage was shoddy, but it was a first for triathlon: same day (almost-live) coverage. I’m sure OLN and Endurance films learned a thing or two about same-day triathlon broadcasts. (And last time I checked, OLN was using their resources to provide coverage of this little bike race in France, so they might have spread themselves a little thin)
So instead of acting like spoiled brats, why don’t you send an email to
OLN
http://www.olntv.com/GIFB_feedback.cfm
and LifeTime Fitness
http://www.ltftriathlon.com/Triathlon/website/index.cfm?nav=pros&content=contact
and THANK them for their hard work and investing in our sport and offer some ideas on how they can better serve their audience. The CEO of LifeTime fitness is excited about triathlon, the Pros had a great time (did you see Barb & Craig’s interviews), and the winners finished 15 seconds apart, so in my eyes the race was a success. I’m sorry you didn’t see it that way. Please put your time to more constructive uses and stop the baseless bitching. Thanks.
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UPDATED - Life Time Fitness Triathlon
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Anonymous post on July 22, 2002
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Previous comment used the words "baseless bitching"... For months the event has been hyped including the TV coverage. The sport of triathlon was in a unique position following the broadcast of the TdF. I can't blame OLN because somebody paid them for broadcasting rights, so not sure how sending an email to OLN will help. The comments need to go to the group who produced the event. Was that Endurance Films?
I agree with some of the other people, triathlons were suppose to take a big step this weekend and it took a big step backward. For someone who is new to the sport, they would have had no clue what was going on.
For those of you who watch OLN, they televise the ITU races and the coverage there is excellent. Again, it's not OLN, it's the group doing the producing.
Hopefully, things improve for next year...
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by KIWINICK on July 22, 2002
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I think that lots of folks were very excited that the triathlon was going to be on TV and then were very disappointed in the quality of the coverage.
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Anonymous post on July 22, 2002
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Just a short note about the post bu DuitDuit. If you ask the athletes they will tell you that they are free to race where and when they want to race. No one at USAT tells them where they should race. If you look at the fields at Cornerbrook and LTF you see that the worlds best athletes are pretty smart kids. They went where they had the best chance of doing well, where they are the strongest. USAT is working closely with LTF to make this a great event. It was the first edition so give them some slack, it's not like the USA has broadcast Triathlons every weekend!
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UPDATED - Life Time Fitness Triathlon
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Anonymous post on July 22, 2002
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How many complainers actually did the race? Sounds like you all sat and watched. LTF has a mag. called Experience Life- it's good advice. As a LTF member in a Chicago suburb, the cycle classes and challenging attitudes of the class instructors is very motivating. Myself and a few others have been drawn to duathlon and to tri's because of LTF. We're never going to earn a living doing it but God knows I'm spending $ on the sport. I'm doing my first tri in Sept. I hope this crowd isn't indicative of most of the people involved in this sport. Please tell it's not! Can we hear from more people that raced?
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UPDATED - Life Time Fitness Triathlon
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by run2win on July 22, 2002
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Lifetime Fitness is a Fantastic Company. We need to find more great companies to put on Sprint distance races that cost over $100 to enter. This would be a great way to increae participation in this sport.
BTW This is a discussion board. The biggest whiners out there are those who say "don't criticize...blah...blah...blah" This is place to post opinions both agreeable and dissenting, there is no right answer, so I don't have to get $180,000 and put on my own race to comment, nor do I have to contact OLN or the race director with my comments.
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UPDATED - Life Time Fitness Triathlon
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by victorlou on July 22, 2002
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I raced on Saturday and while I didn't win $50,000, I have only praise for the way this race was run. Hey, we're all out there with the knowledge that if it is our day, we can walk away with the most money we've ever made in one day. I don't care how top heavy the purse was, if we didn't like it, we didn't have to be there.
In fact, I am thrilled that the race director wanted to do something like this for our sport. He spoke to us before the race and told us that he wanted to do what he could to give triathlon the respect it deserves. By adding that unique element they called "the battle of the sexes" it hopefully appealed to a larger audience which can only help our sport in the long run...by attracting more sponsors, maybe encouraging more race directors to do the same, etc.
Granted I did not see the tv coverage, but I have heard the same things that I am now reading about on this website. I say, next year they'll do a better job with that aspect. The race itself was a huge success, even with a major storm that whipped up while we were out there. You can't get everything perfect the first time, but I believe Lifetime Fitness is on the right track and I will definitely support their involvement in our sport!
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by duathlon on July 22, 2002
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I agree with Victor (he's the fastest fat dog in Lyons), give the promoters and sponsors some credit for taking a risk and investing in the sport
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RE: UPDATED - Life Time Fitness Triathlon
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by WesHob on July 23, 2002
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Hello Duathlon.com readers,
I would like to respond to comments about the Lifetime Fitness Triathlon coverage. I am replying to duathlon.com readers because for the most part, you are thought provoking, informative and intelligent readers. I was notified by a friend that people on another website forum were slamming the coverage. I went to that site for the first time today and the intelligence level of 90% of the people commenting on that site, including the owner of that website who made untrue assumptions (even though the site is touted to be investigative reporting), was so immature that I will not even make an effort to respond to that site. That is the first and last time I will go there.
I have read your comments and please give me a few minutes to respond to some of the negative criticism. Was the TV coverage less than desirable? Yes. Were there reasons for the poor quality? Yes. Was preparation neglected in some areas? Yes. Will the coverage be dramatically improved next year? Yes.
Let me ask you this, do you think Lifetime Fitness and the production directors planned on having this as their final product? There are at least twenty things that affected the outcome of this and I will touch on a few.
The weather the morning of the race called for partly cloudy skies with possible rain showers in the evening. Even still, because of a foggy Friday morning, the production crew tried to get in place a back up plan if there was fog on race morning. Speaking of which, Endurance Films, whom I am associated with, had no involvement with the production of this race. All that Endurance Films contributed was eight minutes of footage from the filming of its triathlon related films to be used as possible interview material. In return, Endurance Films received a banner ad that many of you saw. Nine cameras were planned to be used in the race (one helicopter, three motorcycle and five stationary cameras). Because of same day coverage, all of them were using microwaves to transfer the footage to the TV truck. The three motorcycle cameras had to relay its microwaves through three additional helicopters which then relayed the waves to the truck which then sent it to OLN.
On the morning of the race, only one helicopter was allowed to fly (and that was only for thirty minutes). The FAA grounded the other three helicopters and eventually the one in the air due to low cloud level and thunderstorms. Thus the motorcycle cameras with all of its high tech, were useless. Because of the thunderstorms, the other cameras were not allowed to relay footage well. This is why you received very little coverage of the bike.
On the run, different cameras were hastily put on the motorcycles since the helicopters were not available. That meant the footage could not be relayed directly to the TV truck. The run segment only had these two cameras to follow the lead male and female. In so doing, there was some confusion for the announcers, me, in calling the race. For those that know something about announcing, we don’t get to see the race directly. Our eyes are watching monitors.
Preparation. LF did not acquire TV until about six weeks from race day. That doesn’t give a production crew much time to prepare for an event, especially a crew that hasn’t done a triathlon. Remember, this is also “Same Day” coverage. I think too many of us are used to the prepackaged triathlons on TV that have three months to edit (and to do voiceover for that matter). Could things be better? Of course. Was it kind of exciting to not know who the winners were from the magazines and websites? Yes for a change. This production was put together quickly and the LF corporate offices did the best it could in preparation with the manpower it had. I would have loved to have timing splits throughout the race to call etc. I would have loved to have the plan gone as scripted the night before. All I can say is that we tried the best we could with what we had.
For 2003, the LF organization will have a whole year to plan, which brings me to next year. The CEO guaranteed that the Lifetime Fitness Triathlon will have the biggest prize purse in the world, probably a minimum of $400,000. Could that money be used to promote the sport in other ways? Sure. Is it going to promote the sport with $400 big ones? Immensely! Is paying the pros a lot of money and helping them achieve their dreams great? Yes, but that is secondary to the vision of LF. The main goal with this prize purse is to wake up the “secular” world and get their butts swimming, biking and running. What would attract a non-triathlete viewer to watch a triathlon on TV? Show a race where the winner receives $2,000? How about showing a race with the intrigue that the winner gets $100,000 AND they have to battle the opposite gender for it! Keep in mind that this year, if you take out the bonuses, there was still $110,000 prize purse with equal pay to the top ten men and women.
Do you want your sport to be known, by non-athletes as well as athletes who don’t do triathlon, as a third tier sport? For some of us, we don’t care and that is fine. For others, triathlon is our lifestyle and we want others to know about it. When asked my occupation, I am tired of telling people how to spell triathlete. I am tired of hearing and seeing spelled “triathaloning, triathalete and triathlalons.” I want the correct terminology engrained in people’s heads. Money is used and NEEDED in a variety of ways to promote triathlon from the grass roots such as youth development to reaching the world outside of triathlon such as the corporate world.
On a personal note, I am not Phil Liggett…yet. Following coverage of the Tour de France made this comparison even more daunting. I don’t know what Phil was like in his first “live” (meaning you are not able to detract what comes out of one’s mouth) broadcast, but I hope to have the opportunity to keep improving. Yes there was confusion because the whole race plan was blown apart with the weather and that also created specific problems for the announcers that I won’t get into.
I will end this with next year will be better, more exciting and fun to watch. I also ask you to support Lifetime Fitness, as they are a great addition for the sport. To those of you who can’t wait to be the first ones to get on the internet and type your diatribes talking about anything negative in our sport, try curling.
Keep Tri-ing,
Wes Hobson
weshobsonperformance.com
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by GregBennett on July 23, 2002
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I think its great that there are so many of you writing in to share your opinions, there is plenty of passion in our sport.
Before I raced on Saturday I had to make a massive decision. I had to choose between racing Cornerbrook World Cup and therefore keep my #1 world ranking or go to Minneapolis and give myself the chance to make a serious living as a professional athlete. I chose the later. And although I didnt win I still managed 4th across the line and 2nd male and a solid pay cheque with it.
I have not seen the coverage so I will not comment on that. What I do know is that we have a company 'Life Time Fitness' that wants to take our sport to a new level. They want to show the world an amazing sport with amazing athletes. I can understand the dissapointment many of you must have felt when you watched a coverage that did not live up to your expectations, but you should also understand that this event will only get bigger and better as the years progress......Just as did our Professional series in Australia. Our Professional series started with big budgets but poor coverage. But as the years progressed the Television coverage became awesome. We now have the best athletes in the world coming to it, and have 100's of Australian athletes stepping out of it onto the world stage and dominating.
If America wants to become dominant in Triathlon as it once was then it needs to encourage these big events. And have their athletes step up often and race the best invited athletes every chance they can. We invite and encourage the USA athletes to Australia....In fact most of them are given airline tickets, accomodation and entry's for all our Professional races.
Rather than trying to hold onto the past maybe the USA needs to get behind these big new events and there up and coming athletes.
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Anonymous post on July 23, 2002
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Has duathlon.com become the website for elite athetes and their events only? It once covered many local events but especially this year the message boards are dominated by pros wanting more money and defending their need for more money and almost no coverage of events that do not contain pros. Triathlete Mag and Inside Tri do enough stroking of the elite athletes, why is duathlon.com just duplicating info from Tri Digest, and the two aforementioned mags? Eric, since you have moved up in the rankings, have you lost contact with us little people?
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by Just-Du-It on July 23, 2002
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Anonymous -why would you make such a comment to Eric and the other pros. We all have equal ability to post comments and questions on this site. In addition, can you name another site that has as much event coverage and provides venues to get training and product feedback from the pros - free may I add. This week was a unique weekend in how it impacts the multi sport environment and they have a right to provide inputlike all of us. Do you knowmany other sports with such a large base where athletes have limited revenue potential and exposure while being the best in the world. Have you ever met these pros. Many of them work full time while training just as hard and balancing a family life ... yet they always have time to talk with us little people and give us feedback. Be constructive and don't hide behind "Anonymous". If you want to know about an event just ask and I am sure you will get feedback. Otherwise, Eric is doing just fine for all of us with his limited funding and HIS time ... and so are the pros helping him and us.
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by ftofnoone on July 23, 2002
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I agree with Just-Du-It, and I think was can all say thank you to Wes for taking some time out to explain. I now understand how important this race was to our sport. So thank you Lifetime.
I would still like to emphasize the need for more developemental races in the US. But at least Lifetime was willing to put some mone on the table for pros, during a period in US triathlon, where so many race directors are cutting prize money and pro waves.
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by KIWINICK on July 23, 2002
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I think this is all constructive give and take. Let me comment on a couple of things about this particular event that bother me. First, I don't think there is a direct correlation, as Wes suggests, between the size of the purse and how exciting the viewing of the event is. Good coverage, unaffected by the awful weather, and a more exciting format (draft-legal), have far more impact on viewing than the size of the purse. I must take issue with Wes' on-air comments about drafting. Wes was quick to point out the desirability of forming that perfect arrowhead on the swim, touching the toes of the swimmer in front of you in order to "save 20% - 30%" of your energy on the swim. But when the bike started he was equally quick to noted that there was no drafting because, "we want to see who is really the best". Can't have it both ways, toe sucking to save energy is the same as wheel sucking to save energy. Giving the chasers a chance to draft back up to the leaders would have made it far more exciting, and what we are talking about excitement on TV, not some sense of fairness. People watch TV for excitement, if they want fairness they can go to church.
The "battle of the sexes", in my mind made the event look like a "side-show". If this sort of thing was such a good idea, then Bobby Riggs and Billie Jean King would have ushered in the beginning of a new wave of "battle of the sexes tennis". Billie Jean and Bobby were a side-show. To promote the noble sport of triathlon in such a way is a sign of weakness and is demeaning to the sport. I'm all for big paydays but this is not the way I would do it.
The notion that triathlon will benefit even more next year because the event will have $400,000 in prize money is wrong. Would the event have been better this year if the purse had been $1,000,000? Of course not. What we need are more events with big purses, not one mega event. Take the $400,000 and put on two or four races with purses of $100,000-200,000.
Lastly, with regard to comments made about this website and Eric, this is the best site you can find on the internet in any sport, period. You don't have to like Eric, and the color of the banner might not suit you, but it doesn't get any better than this. Thanks to duathlon.com for providing this forum, it is a key driver behind this sport and is monitored by more of the sports decision makers than you will ever know. Because of that your opinions and comments have an impact on the sport that is only being provided here.
PS - Eric is having the year of his life in the Dannon Series, unfortunately so is Greg Watson. Keep plugging away Eric, on the road and the internet.
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RE: Life Time Fitness Triathlon
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by duathlon on July 23, 2002
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Anonymous,
I'm not quite sure why you are criticizing me. As somebody else pointed out, the message boards are open to everyone, and it is certainly not dominated by pros wanting more money. I don't duplicate any other news sources. I am the only one in the world that provides fast race results from major races, and the only news source that covers duathlons. Does any other website but Duathlon.com provide news/results from age group races? Did you see my article on age group nationals? If I had an ulimited supply of time and funds I would be glad to cover it all, but amazingly, I don't. You are more than welcome to submit results and stories from races, and I would be glad to post them on my website.
Eric
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RE: Life Time Fitness Triathlon
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by KROL on July 23, 2002
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to the anonymousasshole-
hell, I'm an age grouper, and I want more money!!!!!
actually, if my salary would increase in the same percentage that the race fees seem to be going up.....
If someone can please figure that one out for me (why races I was doing 5 years ago are double in cost?)......anyone, anyone.....
this is an interesting string. number one - I don't have cable. I was planning to get it for a month or so to watch the Tour, but, it turns out, neither cable company that services my town broadcasts OLN. I asked them when they planned on getting it - no clue.
So, no, I didn't get to see the broadcast.
What I wonder is if the helicopters were grounded and they tried putting cameras on the moto's, could they have still filmed the bike/run in TdF style, but rather than "live", do a half-day or so tape delay, allowing the crack team of OLN producers to splice together some footage? I don't know whether the broadcast was in fact "live" or actually a delay, so I am curious as to whether a couple hours would have allowed for a better broadcast. Sure the action "live" would be invigorating, but if I am already a time zone ahead, what would a couple hours more mean?
Wes, I think that Liggett-esque quality will come in due time. Just keep practicing the ol' "...that is an attack that will not be answered...."
Oh, and by the way Wes, Jim "big city" Snyder went clydesdale, but doesn't seem to like your old Eyre fits him now.
LATE
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UPDATED - Life Time Fitness Triathlon
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by youngtri on July 23, 2002
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Well to all of you you need to grow up! I am a 22 yr old athlete in AZ that looks at this site every day and dreams of the day I finally finish school and can be out there. I waited for a week for this race to go on the TV an had my tape ready to tape it. Look who cares how the footage was. I am excited about whatever kind of footage I got of my role models. I think you all need to get back in your running shoes and go for a run and think about how rude you are all being. I am one of those thankful folks about Eric having this site up becuase I look at it 2 times a day to get the latest. Would you rather wait 7 days to finally here more than who won the race or would you like to start appreciating the time and effort and money that goes into this site so we have results so so fast? And for the comment stating off with the anonymous asshole...you may want to read youre comment again before writing something like that. You should all be excited that someone in the lovely sport of triathlon recieved half of what serena won in a small tennis tournament. Be happy that those top dawgs have more time to think about just biking faster than worrying about paying rent. And you all should really not say a single thing negative unless you were there and partcipated and have all of the facts. So grow up and be happy every day that goes by that our sport gets bigger. Becuase someday when I become pro you bet I will be going to a new a fun race like that.
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UPDATED - Life Time Fitness Triathlon
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by youngtri on July 23, 2002
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one more thing...thank you wes, desiree, victor and all of you that added to the positive side of all of this. Have fun doing triathlon.
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RE: Life Time Fitness Triathlon
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Anonymous post on July 24, 2002
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I'm sure the pro athletes won't care about this, but what happens when these big money events start affecting the smaller (age group) races. As we have seen with Xterra and Hi-tech sport races in Richmond this year, local groups that have organized events there for years were denied permits because those permits were given to the other two groups. Those two groups only knew of those events because of the work done by the local races.
Also, all the pro's started out at the local level, had local sponsorship, had backing of local coaches and local clubs. Do these pro's still go back and race those events that gave them their start, assist in making those events even better, continue to wear their logos on their uniforms, mention their former clubs in interviews, or even pay back the local clubs that fronted them money so they could travel to big races in their formative days. Now that they won money at LifeTime (you know who you are), it would be nice to get back our loan.
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RE: UPDATED - Life Time Fitness Triathlon
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by SwimBikeRun-StLouis on July 24, 2002
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Eric,
As webmaster of my own multi-sport website, I understand and appreciate the sweat induced by a labor of love. I applaud your efforts. Keep up the good work. Now on to the issue of the week.
I was amazed by the reactions elicited by both the LTF Triathlon and its OLN broadcast. I am heartened by the emotional stake so many athletes have placed in the sport as well as the financial one LTF has ponied up.
I too was saddened by the the coverage that I so looked forward to for the week leading up to the event. It reminded me of my first triathlon, also a disaster. I improved and I'm certain that next year's race will be a vastly improved version.
I agree with many of the posters who recognized that we viewers are accostomed to the polished, post race studio production efforts of Ironman and the ITU tour races. I want to emphasize that I encourage live or semi-live broadcasts. Granted they are fraught with potential technical difficulties, I still feel they offer the viewers an outcome suspense, or payoff, for their viewing time.
I won't write a litany of broadcast snafus and criticism. I think everyone has become acutely aware of just where the improvement needs to placed. Perhaps what we need here is for the disappointed viewers to show greater tolerance and for the race production people to put a bit more thought into it.
I have a few suggestions though : 1) You angst-ridden age groupers with the negative spin, you need to go for a long swim. 2) LTF, keep putting up the $$$$. The pros need to get paid. 3) TV production people, you should to emulate a football team and study more game film. 4) OLN, just keep doing what you are doing. Thank you. 5) Me, I should to do my morning run.
Matthew Cazalas www.SwimBikeRunStLouis.com
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RE: UPDATED - Life Time Fitness Triathlon
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by KROL on July 24, 2002
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to youngtri-
hey, put up or shut up, and as PT would have it - STAY FRIGGIN MOIST!!!!!!!!
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by outback on July 24, 2002
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Hey Krol,
Race fees go up because expenses go up. Police, portapotties, dumpsters, awards, permits, food, tents, trucks,medical, T-shirts, printing, postage, phone, gas, volunteers (not free anymore), mandatory charity payments, spray paints, poster board,bike racks, fencing, scaffolding, race numbers, equipment rental, pins, swim caps, buoys, water safety personnel, air compressors, cinder blocks, cones, message boards, bike support, etc, etc. All these people raise their fees every year, so just like any business those costs get passed along to the consumer. The people organizing the event has a right to make a dollar (pretty much that's it) for their months of work. 5K Races now cost $25 to get into, why can't a duathlon charge $45 and a tri $75.
Maybe that's a survey for Eric to get up. What would you be willing to do without in order to lower a cost of a triathlon. Prize money, T-shirts, awards, food, glitz, bike racks?
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RE: UPDATED - Life Time Fitness Triathlon
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by DocMJW on July 24, 2002
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krolski,et al.
I think they should televise US and change transitions, so that when the music stops we can pick up and ride any bike we want. Allez, hop, hop, hop, and by the way---
the truth is that no matter what the venue, sport (whether it is TRI -- OR -- DU-- OR just bike) benefits us all, and ANY coverage is good. give positive feedback, yo smile-be ambassadors for our sport. Yeah the prices for events are annoying, why do some RD's drop certification, lower their price and others raise it? Simple accounting(arthur where art thou?) tells you your money will double in about 8 years, assuming compound interest.Just don't do those races. the economy is funny- if someone had told me 8 years ago that today my income would be half of what it was in '95, while my employees still want COLA, I'd a said - hey I am outta OHIO-but...kids... etc., what's more important, family, life, good food, good wine(cheap) and Hav the krol make vain attempts to teach me to run?
When ya make comments to the RD's, OLN, anyone- try it like you are talking to your daughter- speak softly and and reinforce your argument(and carry a big stick).
sorry- gotta go- birthday party- they are trying to pin something to me.
MJW Hey was that a flight or what?
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RE: UPDATED - Life Time Fitness Triathlon
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Anonymous post on July 24, 2002
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I stopped doing Ironman races now that the price went over 300$. I stopped doing half ironman races that went over 140$. I stopped doing olympic distance races that went over 70$. Did it matter, NO. Someone took my spot in a second. Yes, all prices go up, so we must pay more. When we as a group stay away from the huge money ticket races, then pricing will change. Not before.
But we won't
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RE: UPDATED - Life Time Fitness Triathlon
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by ftofnoone on July 25, 2002
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In respronse to outback, You list off about 19 billion exact costs to race directors. So let's look at the fact, that your average triathlon, has probably doubled it's entry fee in the last five years. Has your salary doubled in the last 5 years, didn't think so. And your comparasion to running road races is a great one. I just did a 15k last week (the famous Boilermaker in Utica, NY), and the price $25. It would be rare to find a road race over $30, what were these races prices 5 years ago, around $20-25, 10 years ago, about the same. The jump in triathlon entry fees, has way exceeded both the economy and any other sport's. Oh, and due away with prize money? Hard to do away with something, that is pretty much non-existant at a majority of races.
Rock on KROL
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RE: UPDATED - Life Time Fitness Triathlon
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Anonymous post on July 25, 2002
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Hey ftonone,
Since you obviously know all us RD's are ripping you off and you know how to organize one of these things,
then why don't you do one yourself. This way you won't have to race for a few prize money dollars, you 'll make a mint being a race director.
Or, for our next event you can live with me the five months before a race and see first hand how much work and cost it takes to put on an event and you can take home exactly what I make.
Or, leave your real name and since you obviously don't trust RD's, we can make sure that we don't accept your race application to any event. The sport doesn't need greedy SOB's like you.
All right all you GenX'ers. Jump down my throat.
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RE: UPDATED - Life Time Fitness Triathlon
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by DuitDuit on July 27, 2002
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I don't think ftofnoone is a greedy SOB. I'd like to tell that last poster exactly what I think about RDs who can't use their names when making a post, but it would be a waste. The simple fact is that the other sports that are related to duathlon, cycling and running, are far more mature. One of the things they do that makes them attractive to very good athletes on their way to the upper echelons of those sports is that it is possible to win some decent money at local events while putting up relatively small entry fees. As an example, for $15 entry fee you can enter a local USCF training race in the spring and if you win your class take home $40-$50. Your local Lions Club. Jaycees probably puts on a race some Saturday morning in the summer. Enter that race for $15 and take home $200 if you win. You can probably do 10-12 races like this per year and never drive more than 1-2 hours from home. If you are drawn to duathlon, you need to be prepared to pay $45-$75 to enter, drive or fly to the race, stay in a hotel, and buy 3-6 restaurant meals. If you win the whole thing you can expect to get a trophy to go with your medal. These economics make it very difficult for young athletes to choose duathlon over the other two. Right now this is an "elitist" sport for those fortunate enough to be able to pay the freight. The lack of CASH prizes is a disencentive and an effective barrier to entry for many of our younger athletes who could take the competition in our sport to a much higher level. Then again there are some who are very comfortable with the status quo. Golf and tennis couldn't keep Tiger and the Williams sisters out for ever and they have benefited by their inclusion in the sport. Duathlon and triathlon would also benefit by lowering their barriers to entry by offering some minimal prize money.
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RE: UPDATED - Life Time Fitness Triathlon
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Anonymous post on July 29, 2002
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As an RD, organizing a 5K costs near nothing to set up. Organizing a cycling time trial costs near nothing to set up. But throw them both together and the costs go up significantly. Most 5K's have awards for 10 year age groups, most cycling time trials give our garbage given to them by local bike shops. Duathletes demand 5 year age groups, relays, clydesdale, athenas and so forth.
I'm not being a smart ass here, but go out and try to set one up and see what it actually costs.
Also most running and cycling events can take unlimited amounts of people to offset course. So what if 250 people take 45 minutes to complete a 5K, it really isn't a time concern.
But throw that into a duathlon and you either have a race limit or most people don't do both. Most duathlons barely reach 200 entrants (even the Dannon races in some instances) and you have to have income meet expenses. Divide one into the other and you are looking at $35-$50. If you don't believe me, try setting one up.
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by outback on July 29, 2002
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DuitDuit,
I agree with you. Question - How much should the race directors salary be for organizing the event. Let's say a 700 person field for an Olympic Distance Event. What should that persons take be for what is a six month endeavor? Many pro's believe they are a draw for the race director. If the race does not meet a minimum number of people should prize money then be reduced?
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RE: UPDATED - Life Time Fitness Triathlon
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by ftofnoone on July 29, 2002
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Put me up for 5 months and I would gladly live with you. But I wish to apologize to people I offended. I am grateful for most race directors who give their time and energy to further our sport. I guess as a good consumer, I'm just curious as to why the vast increases in prices the last 5 year. But I reiterate, I do appreciate RD's and their hard work.
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RE: UPDATED - Life Time Fitness Triathlon
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Anonymous post on July 29, 2002
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One huge expenses that athletes don't see is what is almost the mandatory conversion to the championchip.
Use of this system costs an extra $6-$10 per person as charged by the timing company. The old way using Runscore cost 3-4 dollars per person, but with the need for athletes to have their splits 30 seconds after they finish, you need to have the computerized chip system in place.
This costs gets passed onto the athletes. If athletes could do with justa final time and place - savings - $10.
Five years ago a white 4 colored T-shirt cost $2.15 now it is $4.25. A permit for a local park 5 years ago was $100 - this year $2500!!! No joke. Police for the course - 10 police for this years event - $3000.
Don't forget the mandatory bag of swag that athletes expect - or they complain. This takes time of the race staff to go out and get this crap. This time is put into a cost center. That costs money.
Oh yeah, on the bike course there are parking meters that can't be used on race day. This year the city charged us to bag each meter and then also for for lost revenue - $850. Awards (5 year age groups and specialty awards for every special interest group and don't forget finishers medals- gotta have 'em) - $3200.
I can go on and on. And you wonder why there is no money for top finishers.
I just don't see what value giving prize money brings. If a race fills up or has a limit on entries, a pro won't add numbers to the event. I did receive an interesting letter from alex rukosevec about trying to get into an event for travel money and appearance fees. Why should I or anyone do that? I barely knew who he was, why would it matter to Bob who is just trying to get through a race. It still wouldn't help with the city paper or TV stations covering the race. I would get more publicity by bringing in a pro baseball or football player in to sign autographs or just stand around. For a RD to give out money to anyone there has to be a value placed on the product and right now (unfortunately) there is no value to having a pro attend a race. Just my thoughts and experience after organizing over 200 events in the past 10 years.
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by ftofnoone on July 30, 2002
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Then what is it that the Canadien World Cups and other races are doing that your races are not?? They are consistantly drawing over 15,000 spectators to their races in far away corners of the great white north, like Corner Brook. Obviously fans are there to see these athletes compete, even sitting in constructed stands at the finish. What's the diff?
Again, just curious, not being dick, and thanks for the detailed reply.
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RE: UPDATED - Life Time Fitness Triathlon
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Anonymous post on July 30, 2002
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The difference is sponsorship which pays for everything. If this was a full time thing that I did then I would put together a professional marketing staff that would go out and bring in hundreds of thousands of dollars in sponsorship money to pay for advertising,TV, radio, glossy posters and everything else that brings out this type of crowd. But, we don't need that. Our goal is to supply a good quality, safe and fun race for the masses. Our sponsorship is local companies that supply product and volunteers. Getting money out of local companies that are struggling is impossible.
If we wanted to be an event like the World Cup events we could, but we get more of a satisfaction bringing people into the sport and keeping it fun than completely cutthroat.
Unfortunately, what is happening is that everyone wants a piece of the pie and in order for us to have an event, we have to continue to pay and that cost must be passed on or the event dies. And there is nobody to take them over if we decide to stop organizign them. Of course, someone would if we told them how to do everything and where to go to get things, but this is also a business and even though we don't make much, we do make something.
In what races did you start your career at and do you still support those events? Of all the pros now that started with our group and received sponsorship, training and free races, it would be nice if every once in a while they decided to come back and race at those events again. But no, they're too important now. Maybe that is a big reason, myself and many other people are down on the pros.
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by outback on July 30, 2002
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Hey Anonymous,
Don't forget the difference in venues. Out in the great white north, they are dying for some large event - any event to come into town and bring people. They are more likely to waive fees.
Doing the same thing in a large city in the US in a totally different thing. There are 100 other events going on in the same area and a triathlon would affect all of them. One person who is a friend of someone on the city council that doesn't want to be inconvenienced can shut down a whole race.
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