In 2003 a total of 39 men finished an ironman distance triathlon on the North American continent in less than ten hours. Twenty-eight of those performances were on the fast Ironman Florida course. Joe Bonness was the one man that did it twice, finishing Ironman Florida in 9:09:18 and the Great Floridian in 9:28:48. He also finished Ironman Hawaii in 9:45, giving him three sub-ten hour ironman finishes in a span of 21 days.
1. Urban Schumacher SUI
IM Florida
8:55:20
2. Joe Bonness*
IM Florida
9:09:18
3. Greg Donovan SUI
IM Florida
9:11:08
4. Wolfgang Schmatz
IM Florida
9:19:30
5. Michael Blue
IM Canada
9:25:37
6. John Trible
IM Florida
9:28:43
7. Joe Bonness
Great Floridian
9:28:48
8. Peter Kornelson CAN
IM Canada
9:34:53
9. Joe Foster
IM Florida
9:35:04
10. Michael Demski GER
IM Florida
9:37:37
11. Bernd Kiele* GER
IM Florida
9:37:53
12. Daniel Denooz BEL
IM Florida
9:41:52
13. Martin Stiegmann
IM Florida
9:42:42
14. David Rowland
IM Florida
9:44:51
15. Herman Waal NED
IM Florida
9:45:19
16. Mike Murray CAN
IM Canada
9:46:00
17. Matthias Janning GER
IM Florida
9:46:07
18. Patrick Campbell CAN
IM Florida
9:47:00
19. Tony O'Keefe CAN
IM Canada
9:47:03
20. Edward Toole
IM Florida
9:48:14
21. Andrew Tuovinen CAN
IM Canada
9:48:19
22. Mike Llerandi
IM Lake Placid
9:48:28
23. Edmund Lenny
IM Florida
9:48:32
24. Phillip Weatherill
IM Florida
9:50:01
25. Raimondo Vecchi** ITA
IM Florida
9:50:24
26. Michael Meteyer
IM Wisconsin
9:51:32
27. Erwin Verbelen BEL
IM Florida
9:54:40
28. Dirk Bartels
IM Canada
9:55:46
29. Steven Anderson
IM Florida
9:55:51
30. Peter Edge*
IM Florida
9:55:57
31. Geoff Cleveland
IM Florida
9:56:07
32. Juan Arrasate** CHI
IM Florida
9:56:39
33. Robert Karalis
IM Florida
9:56:55
34. John Lovejoy
IM Lake Placid
9:57:13
35. Timothy Brennan
IM Florida
9:57:45
36. Robert Spina
IM Florida
9:58:13
37. Patrick MaGuire* CAN
IM Canada
9:58:23
38. Piero Angiolillo ITA
IM Florida
9:58:34
39. Rick James**
IM Florida
9:58:52
All finishes are based on competitors racing in an age group of 40 or above * signifies a competitor in the 45-49 division ** signifies a competitor in the 50-54 age group All finishers are from the USA unless otherwise listed
Does anyone know if the Great Baron.....Rolphe von Berg(can't quite remember the spelling, but this was the guy who got banned at Kona a few years ago due to his eruption at the awards ceremony because of some family stuff) raced IM anywhere this year or raced at all? Definitely capable of sub-10 hour if he was training....
Well then how about (45-49) Don Fink of Short Hills, NJ.
Here's are his 2003 results:
IM New Zealand: 9:26 / 1st 45-59 (course record)
IM Brazil: 9:30 / 1st 45-49 (course record)
IM Lake Placid: 10:10 / 2nd 45-49
IM Hawaii: 9:35 / 3rd 45-49
Before you imply that IM Florida isn't a "real" IM, maybe you should compete in it (don't tell me you did, you didn't). I don't know of anyone with any class at all that would try to disrespect the accomplishment of any athlete who breaks 10 hours, let alone those in the 40+ group. Did you notice that they used BOLD font for those who qualified in the other IM's? Not good enough. Maybe take their medals away. You owe everyone on that list from IMFL an apology pal.
This years 40-44 AG in Florida was unbelievable. To suggest that IMF is not formidale is incorrect. Until you ride 112 miles on a flat course, don't talk about how easy it is. It is very tough on the body, especially the back. The wind is not a cakewalk either.
IMF also gets a ton of Non-Americans racing. Of the 22 guys in that AG who went under 10 almost half of them were foreigners. In IMUSA, of the Top 22 in the same age group there were no Europeans, one Mexican and one Canadian. Only two foreigners. The flood of Europeans to IMF makes it one of the most competitive amateur Ironman races in the world.
Bum-
Sorry to break this to you, but IMFLA is a mickey mouse course. There are athletes that go there only because there is no challenge to the distance. Granted that is a long day in anyone's book, but face the facts, when you've got people in your age group that you challenge day in and day out, you go to Wisconsin or Lake PLacid, and your rivals do Panama City, there is a WORLD of difference in what those courses are like.
That's my opinion, and you can choose to accept it or forget it, but when these guys show up at a man's race, smart money is on them not even finishing.
First off any IM distance is obviously "real" and anyone who completes it gets my respect. However, what I don;t respect are those athletes who start talking smack all winter about their PR time at IM FL -
Do IM LP, Canada,Switzerland etc. You go sub 10 there and you got my respect! Until then talk to the hand!
Remember Lothar Leder did IMF a few years ago, and they were talking about him breaking 8. He said "no way. Not on this course." It is flat, but it is tough. Florida guys usually get their butts kicked in the mountains, but try racing them on flats. Different styles of riding.
Well Switzerland and Canada have mountain climbs. Yes the bike is harder. If you want to be tough, go do a MTB Ironman and quit being a wuzz on a road bike! Don't you hate guys who brag about IM times done on road bikes. If they were really tough they would be doing 112 miles on mountain trails!
The flats are easier in the TdF because they sit in the pack and take it easy on those days, until the sprinters wind up. Don't you ever pay attention? However, ask Jacky Durand how easy a flat day is when you take a 100 mile flyer. Not that easy.
GT solid points - agree with most - no doubt the flats are still hard (if you are riding fast) but you can;t argue the fact that 75% of the fast times listed in this article are from IM Florida. Call me crazy, but when the majority of the fastest times are from one race, i tend to think that race might be a bit easier then the others............
OK, here's the #'s. I've avg'd the top (3) o'all male winners at IMC, IMW, IMF, IMLP & IMSwitz just for kicks, here's the results in order of time:
IMF 8:34
IMS 8:35
IMC 8:39
IMLP 8:51
IMW 8:59
For all you IMF bashers out there, a guy who is going sub 10 in FL, would be MAYBE 10-20mins slower on another course. How can you say a 9:40 IMF time is weak?!? I absolutely love these bitter a##holes out there who have 11hr+ IM times at the 'tough' IM races and are giving these guys sh#t about popping a sub 10 on such an 'easy' course. I've done LP & FL and yes FL is an easier course, but a PR is a PR. Maybe we should start putting an ** next to VanLierde's time b/c is was 'easy' in Hawaii that year, and oh yeah, that 7:50 in Germany was pretty weak b/c that's an 'easy' course. Allen & Scott's Ironwar, I think that day may have not been too windy, they're slow too. But this 1 day up in Lake Placid, you should have seen it..... Stay home guys, I'll see the rest of you in Kona!!
IMF is one of the faster courses, but only 20-30 minutes faster than Wisconsin - maybe less at LP. Pretty easy for wussies like KROL to talk smack from a keyboard. Cmon KROL, toe it up with some of old timers on the list and see how much smack your talkin at about the 18 mile mark after riding 112 miles with no relief. Toe it up with studs like Urban and the other Euros and see how you do. Congrats Timb, and I too am proud to be on the list.
Everyone knows IM FL is the fastest IM course - which can also be translated into one of the easier Ironman races. I am not sure why all you are so offended by this statement? Much like marathons, they are all hard, but there are some where a 3:00 time could easily translate to 2:45 somewhere else.
OK, so you did IM FL, had a great time - Great for everyone. nothing to discount.
TIMB - you had great races at all - but i bet your best time was at IM FL - which is cool -
When I start to spout off about times or "PR's" I have race PR's not distances. Mainly because the races are so different. When I did sub 10 at IM USA, i was more proud of that then the similiar time I had at IM Great FL - mainly because I knew that the bike and run courses are much harder at IM USA - AS WE ALL CAN AGREE ALL IM"S ARE HARD, but some are HARDER THEN OTHERS.......is that more PC for everyone
You guys certainly have fragile egos - or small ......
all this stuff is about one comment
"If 28 of the 39 times come from FLA IM I Think an asterik is in order"
Instead of all the BS - lets think logically here, if
71.794% of the times come from one race, a logical man would say that race must be the fastest course!!!
Hmmm. Faster means easier. That's fresh. What logic did you use to come up with that? I suppose Henry Rono running a 27:20 for 10K in the 1970's was somehow EASIER than the 27:34 previous record set somewhere else. Or better yet, each of Geb's record setting 5K and 10K records were EASIER than the previous because they were faster. Nonsense. Faster means faster, not easier. IMF is a faster course, by maybe 20-30 minutes. Nothing easy about going sub-10 at IMF, or anywhere else. Seems like most of the bellyaching is being done by people not on the list, not by those put in the ridiculus position of defending themselves by the classless taunts of KROL and Ashley. As for Bum, Timb and Sideline - congrats.
Ashley - "Bring it, meat" is mantalk. You wouldn't understand.
Hmmm. Faster means easier. That's fresh. What logic did you use to come up with that? I suppose Henry Rono running a 27:20 for 10K in the 1970's was somehow EASIER than the 27:34 previous record set somewhere else. Or better yet, each of Geb's record setting 5K and 10K records were EASIER than the previous because they were faster. Nonsense. Faster means faster, not easier. IMF is a faster course, by maybe 20-30 minutes. Nothing easy about going sub-10 at IMF, or anywhere else. Seems like most of the bellyaching is being done by people not on the list, not by those put in the ridiculus position of defending themselves by the classless taunts of KROL and Ashley. As for Bum, Timb and Sideline - congrats.
Ashley - "Bring it, meat" is mantalk. You wouldn't understand.
the fact that you shleppo's post as anonymous makes me think we struck a chord here. gee, at least my evil guise is wide out in the open. maybe a lot of those punks out there that get all hostile when someone calls out that great (errrr, I mean **easy**) race they had are the same ones who go to St. George or Vegas and set that all-mightay PR for their marathon?
maybe you ought to worry about tomorrow's race, eh? my comments are classless only because you choose to interperet them that way.
by the way, what's with you guys getting punk'd by the chic?
Geez KROL, are you bitter about something? I did a quick search under your name and found 5 different posts going back to '99 where you bash on IMFL even though you've never done it. Perhaps you are just a bit bitter that you could only manage a 11:33 at the "EASY" Great Floridian course (really smoked that marathon, didn't you. Oh, I forgot, it's much harder than IMF, by maybe 1:34:00). Never found any results on you from Lanzarote. Crybaby.
Superfreaky! Forget the easy course versus hard course argument, the news is that Rick James is a triathlete! Who knew?!? I can picture him now - a gold-plated funny bike with a trail of Jeri Curl down the road behind him.
Yes, finally someone has stated it correctly, although you are incorrect to say that Krol stated it correctly. Oh, never mind. How bout this for another plain, accurate statement - these over-40 guys are dang fast.
I understand where Krolbaby is coming from - We have this guy in our tri club that does IM FL every year. He comes in with a respectable time of around 10 hours. Now this guy works out with all of us -does the same local races and is always well behind us- so we all know where we stand in terms of ability etc. Lets just say he isn;t the fastest in our group. Most of our group treks over to Europe for IM races - (France, Switzerland and Lanzorate) Not surprisingly, his times are about 5-20 min faster then ours - mainly in the bike portion is where the difference lies.
What is the problem is he was telling some other people how he is the fastest in our group, the big daddy etc. Which is a joke. He won't do any other race then IM FL but is always talking about his great IM times, bike split etc. Not taking anything away from him, but you just can't compare times from different races. Heck it is hard to compare times from the same race in different years.
Over the long winter it gets old - So Krol, you might be slow, but i feel your pain.
I think you too are right on the money, and manage to make your points in a way that is not mean spirited or disrespectful of the people on the list. Unlike Krolbaby.
its all relative now isn't it. some crybaby I am. maybe the controversy here is you know the truth. the truth hurts doesn't it?
yeah, great floridian was a slow race (someone help me here, did I say "EASY?"). hey, I didn't see your ass down on that course. at least it wansn't IMFLA!!! I dunno - maybe you are so fast you should be racing elite rather than age group. you think I am going to back down? Nothin' doin. wait a minute...."bring it, meat?" I thought my woman was the only one that knew...
My goodness, Krol. This is embarassing. Stop already.
You can talk all you want about easy/hard, fast/slow, but what you haven't figured out (cuz you haven't been there) is that Florida is fast becoming the most competitive IMNA event for the very reason that it's a PR-type course. There is a guy in the 40-44 group that's been to Hawaii via LP and Canada, passed on a roll-down slot at IMLP this year, had a great race and PR by 10 minutes at IMFL, and was 20 minutes out of a Kona slot!! I'd call that pretty damn tough! The stud Euros came in droves this year. IMFL is a RACE!! Comparing times is stupid. You can talk all the smack you want, but until you've toed the line there you really have no credibility whatsoever when you denegrate it.
No one ever said it wasn;t competitive, nor that it doesn;t have a strong field - it is amazing to see how no one can ever stick to the point or topic of conversation - If you guys are not into politics, you should think about it -
Our good pal KROL actually stated, in the most ridiculous line of this thread that "There are athletes that go there only because there is no challenge to the distance." The challenge obviously is going balls for this distance while competing against arguably the best international field outside of Kona. The two are linked, and you are as wrong as your pal Krolbaby.
I just want Krol to put some money up on me finishing my next IM. I need some new wheels jr.
IMCDA may be the fastest track in the states, however the mid 90’s temperature this year altered the times a lot. We’ll see how it turns out next year. I guess we’re not considering the fast tracks in Europe. (Roth, and Austria turn out some very fast times)
I really thought someone who was laying down the smack like krol would have turned a better time at GFT. I’ve done that race, slightly faster than 11:33, hell I might have seen you there, but I was probably off having a beer! That being said, you’re the first person I’ve ever made fun of regarding their IM time,, bad karma. Just toeing the line is an awesome accomplishment. I am in constant awe of the people I see and meet at the different IM races. Some of the toughest athletes I know are the ones out there just trying to survive to the next water stop! So F*&k you for drawing me down to your level!
If you’re looking to qualify, my choice would be IMUSA, a bit slower (10-15 minutes) so you have to some how deal with not breaking 10 hrs, but at 40+, a 10:30 will get you a trip to kona most years. Personally I think USA and IMFL are very close, the swim at USA is faster, bike a bit more difficult. However I prefer the run at USA. The run course at IMFL is miserable, and I need hills to break up the course.
“why does he keep calling me meat, I’m the one with a porsche “ Nuke lalouch, pitcher Durham Bulls
it continues to amaze me how anal some triathletes can be. I am really don't understand how a fast time at an Ironman translates into a statement being correct. Can only fast people can make bold statements that carry any water? I know a lot of fast people whose opinions are worthless- now i know a person with a slow time that is also worthless
I don;t think Krol brought you down to any level - you were already there!
TIMB - you really need a vacation or a Dr.- maybe both
I think Krol is saying the same thing as many other people just in a different way. Bottom line is IMFLA is a faster race because is slightly less difficult than other IMNA races. This is not saying that it is easy. A faster course will attract a better field. When people talk about fast marathons they usually talk about the Rotterdam Marathon. It is still hard but the course is faster because of certain conditions and this attracts an awesome field.
Before anyone goes off, yes I have done an iron-distance race. I went 11:06 at GFT in 1995. The year that only three people broke an hour on the swim because of wind and wave conditions. So I have been there.
I have talked to people who have said that they are going to do IMFLA "only because it has the fastest course and I want to PR". I have seen other message boards that suggest people do IMFLA so they can have a PR time.
I do triathlons for myself. I like to do well but if I don't so be it. I don't make excuses, I just have fun. If people are racing because of what other people think of them and how their time compares to your time, screw'em.
I did IM FL just for the fast time - and you know what, it was fast - hard but still 30 min faster then anyother IM I did - but it wasn;t easy that is for sure
What the last few of you did that Krol didn't do is make your points without disrespecting your competitors. You show class. Krol did not, and it's not surprising the response he got. Many others have said similar things in this thread, but have done so in a fair manner, and have not been plugged. Krol is a baby and lacks class, and asked for the treatment he got.
Florida 12:21:40
Lake Placid 13:01:37
Coeur D'Alene 13:13:19
Wisconsin 13:30:39
There's a HUGE time difference between IMF and the other races. I do think this is a little skewed due to the 90+ temps at CDA and Wis, the stormy conditions at LP and the great conditions at Florida this year.
The other factor everyone is forgetting is the horrible drafting at IMF. 246 penalties given out. Just over 1/5 of the Kona qualifiers got penalties. One even got a 12 min penalty and still qualified. A 4 min. penalty just isn't enough to deter people when they can gain an extra 20-40 minutes by drafting. That said, with that many people on a course as flat as IMF, drafting is much harder to avoid.
Olympic 5K 13:30
NCAA Colegiate 5K Championship 14:30
The 5K on the next block over from my house 20:45
Based on this calculation, the 5K in my neighborhood MUST be the toughest course out there. Obviously these #'s are hypothetical, but I think you get my pt. You can't compare the level of competition at IMW to IMF, IMF is MUCH tougher. Likewise, you can't compare the course terrain at IMF to IMW, as IMW it's much tougher. You can't compare avg times as there's too many variables.
Why are the times faster at IMFL? Simple, better field and a course that's about 20 faster (maybe 30 if your around the 13 hour mark). Nothing easy about it. Yes, drafting is a problem, and much of it is cultural - I have German friends that say "If you don't get at least one drafting penalty, then you aren't racing". I think that's a load of crap, but it's one of the things that happens with a more international field. I had a pretty decent draft-free bike split (near 5 hours) and could have maybe shaved off 10 minutes if I sucked a good wheel - I doubt anyone of my ability could go 4:40-4:45 (same effort) by drafting. I couldn't. It certainly helped some though. The vast, vast, vast majority of competitors near the front were doing there best to play fair, and I don't want it to sound like it was some huge ITU event. I don't want to get off point, but the misinformation spread on these posts by people who have never raced Florida is pretty sad. Congrats to the fast old-timers - incredible accomplishments. Spit on you naysayers that can't touch em but lob softballs at em from behind a keyboard. Cowards and babies (KROL).
I'm in your head man!!!!
what you don't realize is that what treatment, respect, etc. I get doesn't matter. that isn't why I am on here or why I choose to race.
quite a few of you took exception to an opinion that takes a pot shot at a particular race. and YES, there are bozo's out there that go to that particular race just because there are not, IN MY OPINION, many things that make the course much of a challenge. the distance is one thing, but hills, wind, a little altitude, maybe some snow flurries, etc. add a little more that I would hope would factor into one's race selection.
if you choose to be as thin skinned as some of you have, so be it - that was your choice. when something derives as much controversy as this has, maybe you should take step back be damn glad that some of us out there are having fun, not taking ourselves, our race times, and others too seriously.
No, you won't see me at the finish. I will have finished and will be partying with the other sub-10's. No controversy here, just you acting like a fool.
Just watched IMF on OLN this morning. Funny, Krol, but I heard the top 2 women finishers say that the last 10km were the hardest they had ever done, and Raynard Tissink said it was the hardest thing he had ever done. You're a rookie, dude. Hills don't necessarily make a race harder, in some cases they make it easier. Slower probably, but not always. Your list of things that make a course hard is obviously biased - try adding heat, monotonous terrain, tough competition, rough pavement, tough winds, strong ocean current (didn't get that at GFT did you?), ocean swells, 2nd largest mass swim start in the history of sport, run course with dozens of annoying turns, high humidity. Bottom line, Florida is a fast but damn hard course. Live with it. You know not what you speak.
Amen to that, brother! Drafting can probably get you a better bike split, but the herky-jerky dynamics of wheel sucking can't be a good thing on the run. I'm guessing that most of the blatant drafters blow up on the run. No data, just a guess on my part. I wouldn't draft intentionally because it is not in the spirit of the event, but I don't think it's good overall racing strategy either, unless you can find someone really smooth to ride at your optimum IM effort (highly unlikely). Pacing the bike at IMF is a tough one - really hard to know what the right effort is cuz your locked in it for so long.
2nd Anonymous (my previous post was to the first anonymous (4:45 reference)),
I'm not seeing fragile egos here, just people trying to make their points. Don't tell me you don't take this stuff seriously - you wouldn't be reading this crap at noon on a Thursday (probably from work) if you weren't as damaged as the rest of us. You look silly pretending that you are somehow "elevated" above the rest of us - you have no life either!!
This is precious! They just put up the women's over 40 list, and IM Canada has the most!! I guess IM Canada, according to the brilliant logic displayed by some on this thread, must also be an easy course!! Perhaps it would be best to simply congratulate the men and women on this list, and quit trying to add asterisks and bold font and all that crap. Sub-10 anywhere, by anyone, is world class. That's MY opinion. Again, congrats.
I'm not sure I want to get involved in this debate but, having done both IMCanada and IMFlorida, I think I am somewhat qualified to make a small comment. One factor that hasn't been mentioned (my apologies if I missed something here) are weather conditions on race day. No, I wasn't in Florida this year but had a few friends racing and have talked to them about the day. This year's race had near perfect conditions: calm water and winds, warm not hot sun, lower humidity. IMCanada this year had decent water and bike conditions but poor air quality for the run due to nearby forest fires. Yes, I do agree that the IMCanada course has some tougher elements, weather conditions aside. However, I find IMFLorida to be mentally tougher on the bike - it can be a long grind out there for 112 miles with nothing to look at but the straight road in front of you, pine trees on either side and the prospect of no change at all until you get to the next aid station 10 miles up the road. You don't go through a single town or change positions - nothing!! I've been to Lake Placid and done some riding and it is clearly a challenging course. This year, however, athletes were absolutes hammered with stiff, gusting winds and torrential downpours. I am in total admiration of anyone who did this race who made either list. That was a tough, tough day - kudos to you all!
<Don't tell me you don't take this stuff seriously - you wouldn't be reading this crap at noon on a Thursday (probably from work) if you weren't as damaged as the rest of us.>
Dude I am unemployed and I don;t have anything better to do - believe me, you would never see me on this site if I was working! with such limited time, I usually stick to the porn sites.
