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Under 23 series
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Anonymous post on August 10, 2002
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After viewing the results for the under 23 usat series, I am amazed that usat thinks this is a worthwhile way to spend its members money. Seventeen people is absurd. The amount of money spent on this event, even if it is $100, is an insult to anyone forced to fork over $25 per year or $7 per race - for no real reason. Do members of usat actually think it is important to develop athletes to compete against the world when local triathlons are drying up or charging ridiculous sums to enter them. I'd rather see my money going to improve and decrease the costs at the usat races in northcarolina. Lets see some answers from people who are age groupers - and not people who our money is spent on.
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RE: Under 23 series
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by dude on August 10, 2002
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i'm an age grouper triathlete (although i will eventually be a pro in either triathlon or cycling) who raced in the first series race in florida. it was a huge turnout and on paper it was the most competitive junior race in the world this season. i'm not sure why you think you are paying for this series, as i paid $45 to enter and the people who competed in the nondraft race paid more (i also hold a usat license). you are a member of a national triathlon governing body, if you want funds to go to a specific race or series in the state you live in, then you will have to start your own north carolina governing body. in short, stop your bitch whining and grow up, usat is investing in its future, and i don't see how it effects you if a bunch of dedicated teenagers and young adults get their own draft legal series. contact me via email at benweiser@hotmail.com, and if you really like i will mail you the 25 cents from your usat membership fee that goes toward junior development.
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RE: Under 23 series
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Anonymous post on August 10, 2002
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Dude,
You're an asshole. The other guy has a legitimate complaint. When you pay a fee for something you expect it to benefit you, not someone else. Take your 25 cents and jam it.
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RE: Under 23 series
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by chulm on August 11, 2002
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Hey Mr. Jam it. This is all about you being selfish, isn't it. The whole age grouper vs. elite thing is really silly. Age groupers don't see the value in trying to improve the level of the sport, they are more interested in telling their buddies at work or the grocery store that they won their age group at the local duathlon. The whole age gruop set up works against quality and in favor of people who want to brag. In many dus, with 5-year age groups, all you have to do is show up and buy your medal or trophy. At Dannon Everett a couple of weeks ago these 5-year age groups were so thin it was ridiculous. Women 20-24, 30-34, 50-54, 55-59, 60-64, and men 50-54, 55-59, and 60-64 had one entry per group. If you finished you won! This can't possibly be a reflection on the ability of those "winners", in fact it is no reflection at all. Then we have all of those age group world champions. Same principal. I get really tired seeing federation dues and entry fees going to provide trophies for people who only have to show up to win. I say let's do away with 5-year age groups and go to an ability based system for competitors up to age 40 and then 10-year age groups after that.
At least the young athletes in the new U23 and Elite Junior races are trying to take on the world, not just take home a trophy.
And speaking of the strain of expenses on race budgets, and therefore tha quality of the races, the 5-year age groups are a huge strain. Having to provide trophies in age groups where there is only one competitor should really make you mad. Those folks are stealing. And while were at it, you probably wouldn't go back to a duathlon that didn't give out T shirts, but you'll bitch about having a U23 draft legal race so that your country might be better represented at Worlds. Eliminate trophys for everybody but overall winners, and skip the T shirts and you'd be surprised what happens to the entry fee. But for too many of you this is not about sport or competition, it's about what am I going to get for my money. If it takes a T shirt and a trophy won against no competition to validate your being, you probably should sell your bike and spend the money on a shrink.
Go Junior Elites and U23s!
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RE: Under 23 series
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by chulm on August 11, 2002
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PS, at the age of 43, I hardly qualify as a junior or U23. So, get that idea out of your head.
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RE: Under 23 series
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Anonymous post on August 11, 2002
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Let's do this. Have races for the elites only or the people wanting to be elites and their USAT dues go to their part of the sport and age groupers who still want a trophy to show off can have their own races and their USAT dues go to their end of the sport.
BTW, didn't the elites start off winning trophies at smaller events. Do they still support those events or just use them for their own purposes. Let's get some race directors involved in this discussion.
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RE: Under 23 series
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Anonymous post on August 11, 2002
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Chulm,
you hit it on the head. I'd love to see the womens side of races only get a percentage of awards since they only comprise at best 25-30% of the field at most events. Up the amount of awards in the mens 30-34 and such age groups and drop them in the mens 19 and under and 55+. But try it, the whole race will be protested and chewed up on chat rooms. If I can eliminate T-shirts, ridiculous amounts of awards, finishers medals and the overly hyped and overly expensive chip timing (even go to just finishing times and let people keep their own splits), I can drop the cost of a triathlon $25.00 per person. But the only people that would show up are the hard core triathletes. With out the people signing up that want the t-shirt and frills, there wouldn't be enough people signing up to make any sort of financial sense to organize the event
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RE: Under 23 series
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by chulm on August 11, 2002
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So as a race director, you are saying that except for the elites, most tri and du participants see those events more like the March of Dimes walkathon than a sporting event. They are in it for the T shirt and not for the sport. How did things get to be like this? I think we've been taken over by the "feel good about yourself" crowd. "Everybody's a winner", no need to emphasize performance. It wouldn't be fair to give more support to the best amongst us.
Somebody needs to tell that to the Little League. The boys from my hometown made it to the world series a few years ago, and they got there with the support of the town and the league. Kids and adults who didn't make the team or have a son or nephew on it were still proud of their team and gave their support. Now would they have supported this team if they had been selected by pulling their name out of a hat rather than winning in order to move ahead. I think not. Maybe even Little League knows more than some of our own age groupers.
But let's take one of these ideas a bit farther. I don't want ANY of my entry fee or dues to go the old guys, say over the age of 55, or to women who should be home tending to the kids or baking. In fact, I want their fees to go to buy awards and free trips to the worlds for guys between 40 and 45, the age of a real athlete. Now that sounds really stupid, doesn't it.
We should also note that the USAT is chartered as the US governing body for the Olympic soprt of triathlon and as such is responsible to the USOC and the Congress of the United States to promote and improve the USA's performance in triathlon in international and Olympic competition. That means they are mandated to spend money on ELITES!
I never hear elites, of any age, saying age groupers should not have their own races. Why then are SO MANY age groupers SO full of venim when the topic of supporting Elite athletes is raised? Penis envy!
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RE: Under 23 series
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Anonymous post on August 11, 2002
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Incorrect, this is what the sport has evolved into. Years ago, TriFed now USAT was their to support everyone in the sport and the age group athlete did have some say on the direction of the sport. Nowadays, they have no voice and no choice but to join USAT or at least literature is made to feel as if you have no choice but to join USAT. As a RD, I field these questions all the time from first timers who show their USAT cards at either a USAT insured or other insured event. They were told or made to feel that they had to join in order to race - anywhere. I have no problem with elites or near elites except that the bulk of the athletes are out there for themselves - not to support someone else. Kind of makes sense doesn't it.
Our events and other events have stopped giving out prize money - not because we can pocket more - that money will go back into more post race food or giveaways to the athletes - but because the people winning the prize money would ask to sign up a week or less before the race - even if the event was full and then act like children when told that the race was filled up- even for this person that thought they were important. And most of the time - I or my staff had no clue who they were. I would rather see that prize money go to people who supported the area events on a regular basis - not someone who is following a money trail.
Triathlon has turned into what a 5K was a few years ago. People think they can train for a few weeks and then do the race, get the shirt and show off at work. That is why most races are maxing out these days - not because of the Olympics as USAT wants you to believe. Look at Mdot races - they are all over the place and the amount of finishing times over 14 hours is amazing. Just at Lake Placid - I'm looking at someone who did a olympic tri in our area two weeks earlier and finished in 2:50+ and they're doing an ironman race- nuts!!
But on the other hand, we have to have these people in the races because they help to defray the huge costs of these things. 5-10 years ago, permits were almost nothing to get, both in effort and cost, and now we're paying almost $7-10,000 per race for police and permits- not just one - but a minimum of four per event. Throw in the amount of time required for meetings with every town and every organization that is protesting or concerned about the event and you are talking a lot of time required by a RD just to get the thing off the ground.
Things are changing and not for the better. It is hard for me to continue insuring with USAT because it does cost me more in both money and time to use them and I don't see any of either going to benefit our races. But I do see it supporting a number of 20-25 year olds that seem to be acting like spoiled brats on many of these chat rooms. Let them work to get their own sponsors just like RD's must.
One last thing, no member of USAT voted whether they thought the OLympics was important to the majority of triathletes, we were told it was and saw our money going to support something that would benefit only a few.
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RE: Under 23 series
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by dude on August 11, 2002
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chulm, thanks for seeing the light.
first of all, there are too many anonymous posters. why can't you guys come up with some panhandle so that responses can be directed to you, and so that people can follow your opinions.
to the anonymous RD who implys that i am a spoiled brat. i work for everything i own that involves triathlon, nothing has been given to me. sponsers? i have to mantain my NCAA eligibility. all that is besides the point though. USAT has given me very little, if anything. i purchased a license, and i pay race fees for every race, even the U23 races.
to the anonymous "dude, your an asshole" guy. i hope you don't purchase things expecting to be the only one to benefit from the investment. in a triathlon for example, you pay your entry fee, some of it goes to the cops who work the race, some of it goes to the county/state for road closures(which inturn goes to a multitude of state funded projects, so you better call your senator and demand the fraction of a cent of your money that you inadvertantly helped fund private school vouchers). after all that, a larger portion goes to benefit the RD. i would be surprised if i, or any of the other juniors (some of whom weren't even US citizens) who raced in the florida series opener benefited at all from your money. besides all that, if you went to all the trouble to type "asshole" why couldn't you finish off you closing homily and tell me whereto stuff it? (ok that was concieted)
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